So to understand this question of death, we must be rid of fear which invents the various theories of afterlife or immortality or reincarnation. So we say, those in the East say, that there is reincarnation, there is a rebirth, a constant renewal going on and on and on—the soul, the so-called soul. Now please listen carefully.
Is there such a thing? We like to think there is such a thing, because it gives us pleasure, because that is something which we have set beyond thought, beyond words, beyond; it is something eternal, spiritual, that can never die, and so thought clings to it. But is there such a thing, as a soul, which is something beyond time, something beyond thought, something which is not invented by man, something which is beyond the nature of man, something which is not put together by the cunning mind? Because the mind sees such enormous uncertainty, confusion, nothing permanent in life—nothing. Your relationship to your wife, your husband, your job— nothing is permanent. And so the mind invents a something which is permanent, which it calls the soul. But since the mind can think about it, thought can think about it; as thought can think about it, it is still within the field of time—naturally. If I can think about something, it is part of my thought. And my thought is the result of time, of experience, of knowledge. So, the soul is still within the field of time...
So the idea of a continuity of a soul which will be reborn over and over and over again has no meaning because it is the invention of a mind that is frightened, of a mind that wants, that seeks a duration through permanency, that wants certainty, because in that there is hope.
Jiddu Krishnamurti
5 comments:
Interesting, thanks. I would argue that there is a "package" of unrelated aspects/beliefs associated with "the soul" but that there is little logical connection between the beliefs.
For instance, it seems obvious that there is an intangible, immaterial, non-physical "aspect" to every human. There are many labels applied to this aspect, e.g. "mind", "consciousness", "soul", "personality", etc. In my views, these are all just labels for one and the same thing, that we know for sure does exist. --
But as to whether the soul survives death, or goes to heaven or hell after death, or is reincarnated multiple times, or is indestructible, or is a shard of God etc etc : none of these things in my view are proven or dispro9ven, and remain possibilities, but nothing more. But boy o boy -- what glorious possibilities!
I agree that there are many labels, far too many, but I don't see how the 'soul,' that is the incorporeal 'essence' of a living being which grants said being immortality exists in reality. I guess on that we share a similar view. I think anything to do with there being a heaven ("Heaven lies within you" St. Luke 6:17-23) is all based on fear of death. I think that is totally irrational. How can you be scared of what you don't know? And anyway, what is death? Death of the shell that contains our consciousness? When you die all those tiny atoms which connect you to the stars, all those tiny molecules which connect you to the earth, return to where they came from. That isn't just a philosophy of some 5,000 years old but a scientific fact as borne out by people such as Neal de Grasse Tyson. So if by the soul we mean the building blocks of life that simply exist, then yes, the 'soul' returns to the vastness but reborn? As an abstract maybe. :)
I think there is such a thing as an incorporeal essence of a living being. You can call that incorporeal essence "mind", "personality", "consciousness" or whatever label you wish. (Notice how I avoided including "soul" in the list? !)
I do not have enough information to decide whether or not the incorporeal essence grants immortality. I think it's a possibility that remains to be proven or disproven.
As you say, the atoms of our physical body are not destroyed when the physical body dies. The atoms simply are recycled into other formations. So in that sense, we already have a form of immortality.
But I believe that a person is greater than the sum of their parts. I believe that a person is much more than their physical body. When I talk about immortality I refer to the survival after death of those non-physical elements. It is that survival that remains to be proven or disproven.
I don't know whether or not "soul" returns to the vastness after death.
Nor do I know whether or not "Soul" is reborn (or even dies in the first place). I don't know that any of these things is true. And I don't know that they are false either. And I don't think that anyone knows.
I have no fear of death, in fact, I wish it would hurry up and take me away from the place.
Take care!
I do think that the personality or an aspect of it at any rate goes on beyond the death of the body, and, to me, reincarnation makes a good deal more sense than a lot of things that are postulated, i.e. eternal damnation. I don't claim I know anything for sure, but certain things I have experienced and learned lead me to believe this.
There is no doubt that I think there is a soul. I disagree with a lot of people who think that it is damned to eternal hell if you don't believe in certain ideas, like you have to believe their God is the only God. I don't believe that.
You get a certain idea of God pushed at you when you go into rehab. Even if they say they are a secular facility, you still end up having God pushed at you in a certain way. I go to meetings but I kind of have trouble with Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous because of the religion in it. I do believe in God, and Heaven, but not the way a lot of people do, so it is hard sometimes.
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